It's your Tour: Tour neo-classique

mon premier tour. je cherche un parcours qui force le combat entre rouleur et grimpeur. j'ai essaye de reduire les transfers. la choix des cols et des villes d'etapes est traditionelle.

• created by niko on Thursday 28 August 2014 at 16h00 | viewed 1126 times | 20 messages
  
  

  Olivier73 - on Friday 29 August 2014 at 18h42 Bonjour Niko, L'équilibre rouleur, grimpeur, c'est la difficulté de tous les parcours du Tour, particulièrement dans les Tours modernes, où les étapes de montagne font moins d'écarts, ce qui oblige à réduire les portions chronométrées. Je pense que tu as trop de km de CLM. 2 * 58km, c'est 6 minutes de perdu pour un grimpeur pas trop mauvais en CLM et 10mn pour un pur grimpeur. Compliqué de rattraper tout ce temps. Exemple : Froome prend 6 à 10 minutes sur les grimpeurs. C'est également un des meilleurs grimpeurs. Il faut donc qu'il ait une journée sans. Mais même avec une journée sans, s'il perd 5 minutes, il est toujours en course. Même si tu ne connait pas la région, tu peux utiliser google map, openrunner, ridewith gps pour dessiner des étapes et chercher des cols et côtes. 1ère semaine assez fade, seuls les pavés animeront la course. St Flour, on sait que cela ne donne rien. Larrau, OK. Pla d'Adet, je ne suis pas fan de l'approche. La Hourquette, dans ce sens, c'est un faux plat. Cuneo, trop de plaine entre la fin de la descente et l'arrivée. Granon – Alpe d'Huez, OK

  niko - on Saturday 30 August 2014 at 21h52 voila ma nouvelle etape pour entrer les pyrenees: dax - saint jean pied de port (163km: otxondo 2, izpeguy 2, beillurti HC)

  niko - on Saturday 30 August 2014 at 22h21 bonjour olivier! ok, donc l'aspin c'est mieux. pourqui pas le pla d'adet? c'etait toujours selectif. tu as raison avec les chronos. mais il y a un truc paradoxe: si les grimpeurs savent qui il y a beaucoup chrono, ils font des actions comme schleck dans l izoard. pour ca il faut faire au moins 2 etapes de montagnes tres dures. et les enchainer! en plus: le deuxieme chrono au fin du tour c est different. naturellement les rouleurs sont plus fatigues que les grimpeurs. (giro 1998 p ex)

  niko - on Saturday 30 August 2014 at 22h25 mymy...french is way too difficult. you guys do understand english, do you? i'm considering google translator ;)

  Samuel14 - on Sunday 31 August 2014 at 09h39 I think you can speak English !

  niko - on Sunday 31 August 2014 at 10h13 good morning samuel,olivier! i have checked it,your right. pla d'adet from west is rather bad because aspin & hourquette are false flat. lets have a look at the 2013 tour. in the first two weeks froome was very dominant. he gained about 3:15 on quintana in 33km ITT. so ya,maybe 6min in a 60km TT. in the second TT embrun-chorges i believe it was only 1:11. although there were two 2cat climbs, i suppose it was also due to froome already a bit tired. in the alps then froome showed first weaknesses. at alpe d 'huez he lost 1:06 in the last 4k to quintana. it was a tough day because kreuziger and contador attacked early. but what if the stage had had 3 or 4 HC instead of 2? i think froome would have lost at least 5 min. he saved yellow because the stage to grand bornand was badly designed, not enough terrain for real climbers. they just wasted glandon & madelaine. i admit, i don't like froome. he s a cycling cyborg without tactical mind like contador or nibali. why did he attack in the beginning of alpe d'huez? he just had to defend?! so to crack riders like froome it needs very very tough mountain stages.

  Samuel14 - on Sunday 31 August 2014 at 12h46 I Agree with you, in order to destabilize the best ones, a real tough mountain stage seems necessary. But i still think that Froome is intrinsically the best climber (maybe with Quintana and even if i don't like Froome so much). He lost time because he didn't have any team members with him any more and he was alone against the others favorites. He certainly would have organize himself differently if the stage had been harder.

  niko - on Monday 01 September 2014 at 12h25 hi! i have this theory: there are two types of strong GC-riders: those who get better constantly like now quintana,nibali, basso,kreuziger... and those who come out of nowhere and rather late in their carreer like froome, wiggins and even horner 2013. these riders are called "stradopati" in italy - like over -doped. they achieve high power output in one or two mountains because of high VO2max. but they are worse in endurence and crack soon or later in long mountain stages.

  niko - on Thursday 11 September 2014 at 09h46 Je suis d'accord avec vous dans une mesure limitée. par exemple, le Tour de France en 1987: 132 km CLI 40 km CLEquipe 36 km CLM Ventoux d'autre part, il y avait de nombreuses étapes de vraie montagne (9 ou 10 fois!? HC), en particulier dans les Alpes la course était super excitant! le maillot jaune a changé 9 fois. roche doit être alimenté avec de l'oxygène. delgado a donné du tout. le drame de bernard. et après environ 4230 km était le degat entre roche et delgado seulement 40 secondes. Prudhomme doit arrêter la féminisation du cyclisme. le tour c'est la plus dure course etapes. donc il a besoin du vrai chrono longue,et plat. et pour egaliser les chronos des vraies etapes de HAUTE montagne enchainees.

  niko - on Friday 12 September 2014 at 12h43 l'avantage de la première semaine tout plat, c'est que vous devez prendre plus de considération sur le sprinter alors. alors vous pouvez enchaîner plusieurs des étapes de montagne - sans que de nombreux conducteurs dépasser la limite de temps. je prefere le principe de provocer des jours sans. ca force a enchainer au moins 2 etapes de haute montagnes dans chaque massiv. ca peut etre interessant. par ex: contador faiblaisse dans la seconde etape pyrenees prend 3 minutes de froome. mais dans la dernier tres grand etape dans les alpes froome perd 4 min. puis course toute ouverte. au fin il faut la CLM de 50km.

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  [quote=niko]good morning samuel,olivier! i have checked it,your right. pla d'adet from west is rather bad because aspin & hourquette are false flat. lets have a look at the 2013 tour. in the first two weeks froome was very dominant. he gained about 3:15 on quintana in 33km ITT. so ya,maybe 6min in a 60km TT. in the second TT embrun-chorges i believe it was only 1:11. although there were two 2cat climbs, i suppose it was also due to froome already a bit tired. in the alps then froome showed first weaknesses. at alpe d 'huez he lost 1:06 in the last 4k to quintana. it was a tough day because kreuziger and contador attacked early. but what if the stage had had 3 or 4 HC instead of 2? i think froome would have lost at least 5 min. he saved yellow because the stage to grand bornand was badly designed, not enough terrain for real climbers. they just wasted glandon & madelaine. i admit, i don't like froome. he s a cycling cyborg without tactical mind like contador or nibali. why did he attack in the beginning of alpe d'huez? he just had to defend?! so to crack riders like froome it needs very very tough mountain stages.[/quote]
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